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MultiPlay Observations
by ^Glyndwr^ Mon 26 May 2008, 21:15
^HUN^
MODERATOR
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 162
Posted: 29 Nov 2006 01:12 pm Post subject:
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Can you offer some information and observations so far? ^Marcus^ posted the info about cav charges, though it must be said that Frogbeastegg reported this after the Sega game trial.
What about grouped units? Are you finding they fail to respond to orders? Are archers refusing to fire at selected targets? What factions do you like so far? Was the 2v2 lag free?etc, etc.
Please humour the ^HUN^ it will be some time before he can draw his bow in anger
_________________
....And war will follow.....It always does
MODERATOR
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 162
Posted: 29 Nov 2006 01:12 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you offer some information and observations so far? ^Marcus^ posted the info about cav charges, though it must be said that Frogbeastegg reported this after the Sega game trial.
What about grouped units? Are you finding they fail to respond to orders? Are archers refusing to fire at selected targets? What factions do you like so far? Was the 2v2 lag free?etc, etc.
Please humour the ^HUN^ it will be some time before he can draw his bow in anger
_________________
....And war will follow.....It always does
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
- Number of posts : 843
Location : Wales UK. In the mountains. Searching!! Searching!!
Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
Re: MultiPlay Observations
by ^Glyndwr^ Mon 26 May 2008, 21:15
^Marcus^
MODERATOR
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 140
Posted: 29 Nov 2006 08:15 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Hun,
I tried to give an answer 3 days ago but I lost the post in submitting ... It was a great post lol.
In summary
The cav blob is off. Now cavarly vs cavalry match is similar to old MTW.
You cannot mass units: the second unit does not fight.
Cav is very powerful: it can crash both spears and infantry.
And that is historically correct. What is not correct, even historically is the cost of cav. According my opinion heavy cav cost should be doubled: from average 800 to 1600. Just to let you buy only 2 or max 3 HC units.
Cav dies fast if you do not take advantage of charge bonus, which is really devasting. Spear bonus works only with stopped and trapped heavy cav.
Pikes are very powerful. They are the only unit that can stand cavarly if in phalanx formation.
They are cheap and in phalanx formation can beat men at arms.
It is historically correct, yes, in fact in late medieval the armies were set up with pikes muskets and cavalry.
But if you host late or all units, spearmen and swords become totally unuseful: and that is not good for variety.
Muskets are powerful, I am not sure they are overpowered: they cost much. We should have some tests vs equal cost archers, which I hadnt.
The missiles units are much more important than in MTW: I always go into battle with at least 8 missiles.
Arty gives no advantage. At least as far as my 20 games can testify.
Mongols are powerful: they can deploy many archers
I buried many enemies under tons of mongol arrows.
In synthesis MTW2 is good except for cav and pikes cost, which is too low.
Lag situation is getting better. We could play 2 v 2 twice with no lag.
I couldnt notice hard bugs. Archers stop fire against enemy units engaging friendly units ... I couldnt notice more. I will take look more deeply in the matter.
I played with:
Mongols ... Deadly
Milan ... Poor (no pikes)
Pope ... Medium (few muskets and poor archers, but good swiss pikes in late)
French ... Maybe most powerful (all types of units)
Spain ... as french ... almost
marcus
_________________
Veni, Vidi, Vici ...
Alea iacta est ...
Gallia est omia divisa in partis tres ...
Quo usque tandem abutere, CA, patientia nostra?
MODERATOR
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 140
Posted: 29 Nov 2006 08:15 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Hun,
I tried to give an answer 3 days ago but I lost the post in submitting ... It was a great post lol.
In summary
The cav blob is off. Now cavarly vs cavalry match is similar to old MTW.
You cannot mass units: the second unit does not fight.
Cav is very powerful: it can crash both spears and infantry.
And that is historically correct. What is not correct, even historically is the cost of cav. According my opinion heavy cav cost should be doubled: from average 800 to 1600. Just to let you buy only 2 or max 3 HC units.
Cav dies fast if you do not take advantage of charge bonus, which is really devasting. Spear bonus works only with stopped and trapped heavy cav.
Pikes are very powerful. They are the only unit that can stand cavarly if in phalanx formation.
They are cheap and in phalanx formation can beat men at arms.
It is historically correct, yes, in fact in late medieval the armies were set up with pikes muskets and cavalry.
But if you host late or all units, spearmen and swords become totally unuseful: and that is not good for variety.
Muskets are powerful, I am not sure they are overpowered: they cost much. We should have some tests vs equal cost archers, which I hadnt.
The missiles units are much more important than in MTW: I always go into battle with at least 8 missiles.
Arty gives no advantage. At least as far as my 20 games can testify.
Mongols are powerful: they can deploy many archers
I buried many enemies under tons of mongol arrows.
In synthesis MTW2 is good except for cav and pikes cost, which is too low.
Lag situation is getting better. We could play 2 v 2 twice with no lag.
I couldnt notice hard bugs. Archers stop fire against enemy units engaging friendly units ... I couldnt notice more. I will take look more deeply in the matter.
I played with:
Mongols ... Deadly
Milan ... Poor (no pikes)
Pope ... Medium (few muskets and poor archers, but good swiss pikes in late)
French ... Maybe most powerful (all types of units)
Spain ... as french ... almost
marcus
_________________
Veni, Vidi, Vici ...
Alea iacta est ...
Gallia est omia divisa in partis tres ...
Quo usque tandem abutere, CA, patientia nostra?
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
- Number of posts : 843
Location : Wales UK. In the mountains. Searching!! Searching!!
Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
Re: MultiPlay Observations
by ^Glyndwr^ Mon 26 May 2008, 21:16
Posted: 29 Nov 2006 09:08 pm Post subject:
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I have put these two posts into their own topic to make discussions easier.
To date, I have played English, French and Scottish.
Even with English managed to hold a Turk army fairly comfortable.
Due to the other players overlarge musket army my longbows were not all that effective. I believe it was 8 muskets against 4 longbows.
I have not yet tried to move a grouped unit (haven't used group) but have not noticed archers not firing at a selected unit. In fact the kills have been quite good. Sorry I can't give analized info, I haven't gone that far into the figures.
Cav are definately too strong. With a test with Marcus, cav v spears, with both the single click and the double click commands, the spears were wiped out.
Last nights 2v2 we were up against art (slings) and cannons. They do not seem to have the same power as in RTW.
I will keep trying different factions and their units to see what each are capable of regardless of the outcome of the MP battles for now.
As Marcus said, 2v2 very little or no lag and that's with me hosting with this Athlon. The last but one game I did get a warning that there were too many soldiers for my machines capability but it didn't make any difference to the game play. If any thing it played better.
I have not had to restart the game to host another game since. Straight back to Lobby and Host again.
The one game where a player Lost the connection with the host, on that occasion I did have to log out of the game and restart it.
I have to agree with Marcus, it is playing better than MTW and definately better than RTW. Seems a more realistic game and not at the silly speeds of RTW.
I just have to remember the right commands with mouse and keys.
_________________
........Let the battle begin.......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have put these two posts into their own topic to make discussions easier.
To date, I have played English, French and Scottish.
Even with English managed to hold a Turk army fairly comfortable.
Due to the other players overlarge musket army my longbows were not all that effective. I believe it was 8 muskets against 4 longbows.
I have not yet tried to move a grouped unit (haven't used group) but have not noticed archers not firing at a selected unit. In fact the kills have been quite good. Sorry I can't give analized info, I haven't gone that far into the figures.
Cav are definately too strong. With a test with Marcus, cav v spears, with both the single click and the double click commands, the spears were wiped out.
Last nights 2v2 we were up against art (slings) and cannons. They do not seem to have the same power as in RTW.
I will keep trying different factions and their units to see what each are capable of regardless of the outcome of the MP battles for now.
As Marcus said, 2v2 very little or no lag and that's with me hosting with this Athlon. The last but one game I did get a warning that there were too many soldiers for my machines capability but it didn't make any difference to the game play. If any thing it played better.
I have not had to restart the game to host another game since. Straight back to Lobby and Host again.
The one game where a player Lost the connection with the host, on that occasion I did have to log out of the game and restart it.
I have to agree with Marcus, it is playing better than MTW and definately better than RTW. Seems a more realistic game and not at the silly speeds of RTW.
I just have to remember the right commands with mouse and keys.
_________________
........Let the battle begin.......
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
- Number of posts : 843
Location : Wales UK. In the mountains. Searching!! Searching!!
Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
Re: MultiPlay Observations
by ^Glyndwr^ Mon 26 May 2008, 21:17
^HUN^
MODERATOR
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 162
Posted: 30 Nov 2006 06:55 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
^Marcus^ wrote:
Hello Hun,
I tried to give an answer 3 days ago but I lost the post in submitting ... It was a great post lol.
Heh. Don't you just love it when that happens?
Quote:
Mongols are powerful: they can deploy many archers
I buried many enemies under tons of mongol arrows.
That sounds nice. Did you go with a lot of infantry or was it a HA based army? I tried the game in custom battles thanks to ^Glyndwr^. I had an army of 4 HA, 4 Heavy Archers, 4 archers 4 Light inf and a Dismounted light lancer....I don't remember if there was anything else or if there was I don't remember what it was LOL. Whatever it was, I don't think it was a full 20 units. I was surprised to see stat comparison with other HA. Mongol HA are not the best and Mongol heavy archers have the same stats as Mameluk HA!!! They only have better stamina.
Thanks for the analysis, it sounds quite nice. I'm a bit concerned about the spear/cav situation. Pikes appeared around the time that armour improved and I would really expect a unit of spears to be able to at least hold a cav charge by what would be mailed Knights in High era. I am reading 20% losses to spears receiving a frontal charge and that's instantly. On the other hand, pinning enemy cav with your own and sending in a spear unit seems to be the effective tactic for using spears.
Quote:
To date, I have played English, French and Scottish.
Even with English managed to hold a Turk army fairly comfortable.
Due to the other players overlarge musket army my longbows were not all that effective. I believe it was 8 muskets against 4 longbows.
8 Muskets? .. Looks like someone is searching for a 'spam' army to me. Did you host 'All' era then? That era will not be balanced, CA admitted that much due to inequal faction progression.
It is way too early to tell but the news so far sounds promising.
Have fun in the meantime. By the time I manage to get online I will be like a total novice
_________________
....And war will follow.....It always does
MODERATOR
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 162
Posted: 30 Nov 2006 06:55 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
^Marcus^ wrote:
Hello Hun,
I tried to give an answer 3 days ago but I lost the post in submitting ... It was a great post lol.
Heh. Don't you just love it when that happens?
Quote:
Mongols are powerful: they can deploy many archers
I buried many enemies under tons of mongol arrows.
That sounds nice. Did you go with a lot of infantry or was it a HA based army? I tried the game in custom battles thanks to ^Glyndwr^. I had an army of 4 HA, 4 Heavy Archers, 4 archers 4 Light inf and a Dismounted light lancer....I don't remember if there was anything else or if there was I don't remember what it was LOL. Whatever it was, I don't think it was a full 20 units. I was surprised to see stat comparison with other HA. Mongol HA are not the best and Mongol heavy archers have the same stats as Mameluk HA!!! They only have better stamina.
Thanks for the analysis, it sounds quite nice. I'm a bit concerned about the spear/cav situation. Pikes appeared around the time that armour improved and I would really expect a unit of spears to be able to at least hold a cav charge by what would be mailed Knights in High era. I am reading 20% losses to spears receiving a frontal charge and that's instantly. On the other hand, pinning enemy cav with your own and sending in a spear unit seems to be the effective tactic for using spears.
Quote:
To date, I have played English, French and Scottish.
Even with English managed to hold a Turk army fairly comfortable.
Due to the other players overlarge musket army my longbows were not all that effective. I believe it was 8 muskets against 4 longbows.
8 Muskets? .. Looks like someone is searching for a 'spam' army to me. Did you host 'All' era then? That era will not be balanced, CA admitted that much due to inequal faction progression.
It is way too early to tell but the news so far sounds promising.
Have fun in the meantime. By the time I manage to get online I will be like a total novice
_________________
....And war will follow.....It always does
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
- Number of posts : 843
Location : Wales UK. In the mountains. Searching!! Searching!!
Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
Re: MultiPlay Observations
by ^Glyndwr^ Mon 26 May 2008, 21:17
Posted: 01 Dec 2006 12:39 am Post subject:
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^HUN^ wrote:
8 Muskets? .. Looks like someone is searching for a 'spam' army to me. Did you host 'All' era then? That era will not be balanced, CA admitted that much due to inequal faction progression.
Yes, I have been hosting "All" era for the battles just to see what is available. I shall try hosting other eras later. Another + it doesn't take long for people to join the games.
We had one person leave without saying a word just as we were going to start the battle. Unfortunately the AI takes over that army.
Happy to say, the commands are coming back to me now. Talk about rusty.
Another good point that I see. In battle, when your units are starting to get 'tired'. the banners show 'green' in the same way that they show 'red' when a unit is 'fighting to the death'.
^Marcus^ wrote:
Mongols are powerful: they can deploy many archers
I buried many enemies under tons of mongol arrows.
I watched the replay of that last 2v2 we fought. Arrows?? it seemed more like hailstones.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
^HUN^ wrote:
8 Muskets? .. Looks like someone is searching for a 'spam' army to me. Did you host 'All' era then? That era will not be balanced, CA admitted that much due to inequal faction progression.
Yes, I have been hosting "All" era for the battles just to see what is available. I shall try hosting other eras later. Another + it doesn't take long for people to join the games.
We had one person leave without saying a word just as we were going to start the battle. Unfortunately the AI takes over that army.
Happy to say, the commands are coming back to me now. Talk about rusty.
Another good point that I see. In battle, when your units are starting to get 'tired'. the banners show 'green' in the same way that they show 'red' when a unit is 'fighting to the death'.
^Marcus^ wrote:
Mongols are powerful: they can deploy many archers
I buried many enemies under tons of mongol arrows.
I watched the replay of that last 2v2 we fought. Arrows?? it seemed more like hailstones.
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
- Number of posts : 843
Location : Wales UK. In the mountains. Searching!! Searching!!
Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
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